Gilbert F. Houngbo (Togo, 61 years old) is the first African to hold the position of director general of the International Labor Organization (ILO). Prime Minister of his country between 2008 and 2012, he says he feels “very concerned” about the anti-immigration discourses that spread around the world and defends the “advantages” of orderly labor migration for both host countries and countries of origin. This was stated in an interview with this newspaper during his participation in the Hamburg Sustainability Conferenceheld earlier this month, in which Houngbo explored together with other world leaders how to promote “decent work”, that is, productive jobs that provide a decent income and whose creation today remains a great “challenge” for almost all economies.
Ask. Anti-immigration speeches resonate increasingly louder in the European Union or the United States. How do they affect the employment of migrants?
Answer. I am very concerned because anti-immigrant discourse is everywhere. I may not agree, but I completely understand that some governments have to pay attention to that expression of the population’s sentiment. But, migration should not be seen as something negative. I’m not talking about irregular migration or those who migrate for humanitarian reasons… And obviously, migrants who arrive in a country have to comply with the rules. Therefore, it is necessary to end the negative image of migration, because migration is a need that will increase in the coming decades.
Q. How do you combat anti-immigration discourse?
R. We have to intensify communication and defense of what immigrants bring us or could bring us. Migrants do not come to take control of countries or become people who do not respect the law and commit criminal acts. Labor migration, when very well organized, is an advantage for everyone: for the (Global) North, which is fighting against the aging of the population, for the countries of origin and for the emigrants themselves and their families. We have to insist that no one will win unless we decide to step forward, involving all sectors, to achieve orderly labor migration, ensuring that migrants predominantly go to sectors where there is a deficit.
Labor migration, when well organized, is an advantage for everyone
Q. For example?
R. In the transportation sectorin the hotel industry and even in information technology. Not to mention the agricultural sector, where there are many migrant workers harvesting strawberries or olives, or in pastry shops and bakeries.
Q. The jobs that workers from the Global North don’t want to fill?
R. In the case of bakeries, people don’t want to get up at two or three in the morning to have the bread ready at five. And it is important to ensure that there is no lack of labor in that market. Although we must guarantee that migrants have access to what I call a transition in their lives.
Q. What is it referring to?
R. They must try to learn the way of life in the country that has welcomed them.
Q. Labor migration can also cause a brain drain.
R. Yes, although labor migration is full of advantages, great care must be taken not to unintentionally create any type of brain drain in the countries of origin. In addition, many of these immigrant workers or their children gain great experience in the North that can be of great help in their countries if they return.
Q. What do you propose to ensure that labor migration is well organized?
R. For me, it has to be a voluntary approach and that is why the ILO is supporting bilateral agreements between countries of the North and those of the South. Germany, for example, has bilateral agreements with Kenya or India. They allow young people to be shown that there is a legal route and discourage them from trying to cross the Mediterranean by boat. And these agreements could contribute to a win-win scenario, that is, they would allow, for example, agreeing on labor migration for five or 10 years and then returning to the country of origin.
Q. And do you think migrants would return to countries of origin where there are fewer opportunities or lower salaries?
R. To attract those who have grown up in the Global North and already have experience, programs are necessary to help them, above all, in terms of financing, so that they can resettle in their countries of origin. When I was in the Government (as Prime Minister of Togo), we tried to ensure the existence of a special unit to help returnees. Although there are many challenges, especially because they have to adapt to a new way of life and may not have access to everything they used to have in the country they had migrated to. For example, if you are a doctor, you may not have the latest generation equipment, so you will have to get used to using other types of equipment.
Q. The Artificial intelligence can it be a help?
R. Everyone talks about Artificial Intelligence and young people are very involved. However, one of the problems is that Internet infrastructure does not exist everywhere, especially when you leave the big city areas. And this is a concern of the ILO, because unless we do something internationally, the digital divide will grow and cause some people to be left behind.
On average, women continue to earn between 20% and 23% less than men for the same work
Q. Women are more at risk of being left behind. How is it avoided?
R. Improving social protection and fighting against the inequalities and prejudices of which women are victims. On average, women still earn between 20% and 23% less than men for the same work, so we have to combat this discrimination. It is also very important to continue taking steps to expand parental leave. In developing countries in particular, it can be very expensive to have a system that allows young mothers and fathers to have daycare or childcare leave.
Q. How can a transition to a greener economy be ensured without undermining job security?
R. We know that we are far behind in climate action and it is crucial to take a step forward now. But it is also key to take into account the human dimension in the transition towards a greener economy.
Q. What do you mean by the “human dimension”?
R. I’m talking about a just transition. For example, the decarbonization of the economy is very important and I applaud what the British have done with the closure of the last coal plant (Ratcliffe-on-Soar, on September 30). But we also know that there are a large number of families in Europe who depend on the coal sector to survive.
b. How is balance achieved?
R. Not necessarily slowing down, in this case decarbonization, but it is essential to plan the transition to the green economy to ensure that these workers continue to have a decent life. And that means that we must have a social protection system and, most importantly, job retraining and recycling programs so that these workers can train, for example, in clean energy. And, of course, you have to maintain your standard of living. For example, according to Linkedin data, salaries for jobs in the renewable energy sector are between 15% and 30% lower than in non-renewable energy. Political will is needed to ensure that those moving towards a green economy do not lose out.
